From the start, this whole gambit seemed to me to be an attempt by Leiweke to cover up the problems with the lack of occupancy at the hotel and condos near LA Live. Given that the LA rental/real estate market seems to be turning around (or, at least, that's what my landlord is saying), maybe he's just looking for a way out.

As a separate note, the idea that always made more sense to me was that if AEG were able to purchase the Dodgers, they could build a new baseball stadium downtown (where baseball stadia usually make more sense) and then build a football stadium in the current Dodgers stadium parking lot (the largest in the world, at least according to my USC geography professor back in 1995). That would be expensive and cumbersome, but at least you'd end up with a football stadium that has space for tailgating and a baseball stadium with a social scene surrounding it.

Imagine that.

Front man for a billionaire actually irked that the City of Los Angeles is asking hard questions about $300,000,000 in bonds to replace that part of the L.A. Convention Center that Leiweke and Anschutz want the city to tear down.

On its own dime.

Note that while that same Convention Center is a demolished wreck, the city of Los Angeles will earn not a penny in convention biz while it waits for the mere crumbs that *might* accrue from an NFL stadium.

Ask Leiweke and Anschutz who really benefits - and if they could tell the truth, that would be the NFL team that gets paid off to locate to their stadium.

That's where the lion's share of the $700M Farmer's Insurance naming rights deal is going - certainly not to Los Angeles or to Angelenos.

Mr. Leiweke just learned that he's not going to fool all of the people all of the time.

Regards,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org

-=0=-

Ben, why would you advocate tearing down a perfectly nice baseball stadium to then build a 500 million dollar baseball stadium AND a 1.5 billion dollar football stadium. Doesn't it make more sense to just build the football stadium if you're going to build anything at all?

I'm inclined to agree with Ben.

I'll preposition this by saying I've never been to Dodger Stadium but as a tourist I've looked into going a few times I've vacationed. The one thing that people stress to me when I've tried to plan a game is the hassle it is driving in and out of the Stadium parking lot since there are limited mass transit options (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong: I would like to go to Dodger Stadium on one of these vacations).

For the common fan to go through this rigger-moral for 8 games (or 9 if the NFL gets its way) on a Sunday afternoon is one thing, going through it 81 times, many times at night, probably proves to be a bigger headache than its worth.

Do the Dodgers get more fans paying premium ticket prices having the park some where accessible with social amenities surrounding the park? My guess would be yes.

AEG should abandon the football stadium and buy the Dodgers while doing their convention center/retractable roof stadium idea with the Dodgers. It makes way more sense and then Chavez Ravine can be turned into a condo paradise, retail place, etc.

Let Roski build his stadium in the City of Industry. If the Raiders and Chargers can't get their stadiums then move them to City of Industry where the two most popular teams in Los Angeles are the Raiders first, Chargers a close first but second and the 49ers a distant third.

City of Industry is a great location since it covers all four major counties in the Greater Los Angeles Area in a 25 mile radius. I think AEG may be setting this deadline down as a way to bow-out of the Farmers Field process and are probably keeping a very close eye on the Dodgers situation.

For AEG it makes way more business sense for the L.A. Live district to move the Dodgers to a new retractable roof stadium on the convention center space. They can use the same idea right now, plus baseball fields have a much larger space that I think works for the convention center part of its use and would secure the Summer X-Games for them since you can do all the motor cross stuff on a baseball field.

In the end, AEG would own the Chavez Ravine space outright and can build stuff their themselves or just sell the land at a premium. City of Industry Stadium is shovel-ready and the NFL turned their back for this terrible Downtown Stadium idea, maybe they'll come back around with Roski who already has an established relationship with the Spanos Family to begin with. We'll find out soon enough on August 1st.

Andrew, two things. One, since the Dodgers have rejiggered parking in recent years it's not nearly as bad to get in or out. Two, even in downtown LA getting in or out will be similar to Chavez Ravine since they're so close to one another and even with public transit options no one in LA uses the limited transit options over their cars.

First, my perspective on enhancing civic pride in any city includes creating a vibrant downtown as a business, entertainment, and cultural center. LA has none of that, and as a born and raised SoCal resident, it pains me to think o LA as not quite a grown-up city. I have always been interested in cities, urban development, and the like.

From that, and as an extension, downtown sports stadia are one of the keys to this, and they do much to enhance the city skyline as massive awe-inspiring landmarks. Ive been to Pittsburgh three times, and there are few experiences like seeing two stadia, Heinz and PNC, open ended, staring right at the downtown skyline, a mere 15 minute walk over one of several bridges. When the Steelers open the NFL season, the light and fireworks shows that incorporate wide shots of the entire city are heads above what could be done miles from anywhere with nothing around as with Industry. Whats more, the businesses surrounding these venues benefit from gameday gatherings.

Living in San Francisco for 2 years, I can tell you that the entire SoMa area thrives on Giants games, whereas Candlestick, and Alameda across the Bay, fail to do anything for businesses and ultimately tax revenue because they are in respective no-mans-lands of their cities. SF Locals like to tell the story of a 49ers replacement stadium proposed for the former industrial area now occupied by the UCSF Mission Bay campus. The idea of the two, sitting across the cove from each other, is an incredible dream.

Back to LA. Imagine Staples, Nokia, Farmers, and a new/revamped Convention Center, all neighbors. And the pride for Angelinos that at times, and sometimes like a planetary alignment all at once, their downtown will be the center of entertainment, of sport, of business or politics...

LA isnt yet known for being a real city. It's too broad, to decentralized. Add to that modern society's antipathy for design and anything that will withstand the test of time, the disdain for any attempt to develop iconic constructions, and you have a very boring, very lacking urban setting. LA has a lot of potential, and in the macro-level discussion about what such development can do for the City and its people, downtown venues like these are of the utmost importance.

That's my two cents.

Here's a private company willing to invest its' own $$ to build a new stadium and rebuild part of the L.A Convention Center and u people r complaining about it???!!! Do u obstructionists have a better idea???!!! Thats what I thought, give me a break!!!

Bottomline, you'd do better to read up on the facts before firing off a falsehood that blatant.

Neither AEG nor the team they sucker into signing on for L.A. will pay the city a single penny for the Convention Center reconstruction.

Not only that, AEG effectively told Los Angeles that no one in on the deal was going to compensate the city in any way for the lost Convention Center business they're going to lose while they wait around for a subsidized NFL stadium to pay them off in peanuts and crumbs.

A taxpayer-supported NFL stadium's a pig with lipstick on. That's all.

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-

Lost Convention Center business they're going to lose??!! We're already losing convention center business to everyone around us(anaheim, las vegas, san diego#!!! R u kidding me???!!! We're the 2nd largest city in the country yet our convention center ranks 16th!!! Also, as I stated before, do u#or any other obstructionist out there# have a better idea??!! In other words, do u have another developer#with the proven track record AEG has) standing by willing to invest "their own" $$ and invest in downtown L.A right now??!! This reminds me of 1999 all over again when councilman joel wachs(obstructionist) did everything he could to derail the Staples Center project, thank God he failed and left town shortly thereafter!! With people like that(who r supposed to be looking for our best interests) who needs enemies?!

Lost Convention Center business they're going to lose??!! We're already losing convention center business to everyone around us(anaheim, las vegas, san diego#!!! R u kidding me???!!! We're the 2nd largest city in the country yet our convention center ranks 16th!!! Also, as I stated before, do u#or any other obstructionist out there# have a better idea??!! In other words, do u have another developer#with the proven track record AEG has) standing by willing to invest "their own" $$ and invest in downtown L.A right now??!! This reminds me of 1999 all over again when councilman joel wachs(obstructionist) did everything he could to derail the Staples Center project, thank God he failed and left town shortly thereafter!! With people like that(who r supposed to be looking for our best interests) who needs enemies?!

Then WHY would you back a scheme that makes things even WORSE?

Subsidizing an NFL Millionaire is a loser - no matter how you slice it - and Los Angeles isn't going to get any richer with the AEG deal.

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-

With all due respect, that is the same kind of rhetoric that was being spewed about in the late 1990s' when joel wachs and his people were saying how terrible the Staples Center project was going to be for the city!! If I recall, the city had to give a $58.5 million dollar subsidy(roughly 16% of total cost) back then, any complaints??!! Please, do us all a favor, unless u have a legitimately better idea, dont get in the way of a project that could potentially be a big benefit to the area. Thank u

And the Staples center is nothing like an NFL stadium requiring far MORE subsidy from Los Angeles.

Staples: 19,079 seats for hoops. Bookable for far more events than AEG's stadium ever will be.

AEG: 68,000 seats. Virtually worthless and completely unproductive for anything other than NFL football - and that for only ten days a year.

(Recall that the conditions on the Farmers Insurance naming rights deal for your boondoggle stadium deal was *very* specific: The operators have to book 50 or more events a year, and each event has to sell 40,000 tickets, minimum, for those 68,000 seats.)

I've seen this movie before, Bottomline - the same tired rationalizations that, because an arena books events, a publicly-subsidized NFL stadium must be better.

Sorry. But it's a load of horse apples.

And remember that you yourself still rationalized this boondoggle by saying that L.A. Convention Center biz was being lost anyway. Your statement that L.A. should make this situation worse is exactly why NFL host cities are general in the shape they're in.

Their NFL stadiums sure ain't saving them.

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-

Wow, amazing.... So, by that chain of logic, lets just all hold hands and do absolutely nothing!! Nothing, that is, except bitch & complain about how horrible a potential development can be! For the sake of argument, lets assume u r absolutely correct, these people r con artists and u r successful in derailing this proposal! Whats your alternative?! Have u seen the west wing of the L.A Convention Center lately?! While we're at it, the entire Convention Center is in need of updating! Who is supposed to do that(sooner rather than later#? R u aware of any other developer willing to invest#their own $$# to upgrade#atleast a portion of) our Covention Center?! I have yet to hear of a better alternative!! Good day...

Also, for your enternainment, feel free to look into a grass roots movement(obstructionists) thats going on here in our beloved city of long beach. Theres a project being proposed by a developer on a very attractive parcel of land by the marina where they(developers) would like to build a beautiful development in the near future. What sits on this parcel of land now u ask? A condemned, dilapidated hotel/motel that has been sitting vacant for decades! The reason this movement is against it and trying to stop it is because some of the structures that the developers want to build would be too tall!! I guess they would rather see bums, drug addicts & prostitution rather than taller buildings!!

Bottomline,

You have no credible explanation of WHY that Convention Center is supposed to put itself out of business for close to three years, only to subsidize an NFL stadium that won't make money for them or for the city.

Rememember: AEG wants *Los Angeles* to float the $350M in bonds needed for all of that work - and they won't pay the city back a single dime for what the city loses while it's doing that.

Your stadium scheme flat-out, stone cold doesn't work. It doesn't even work with the $700M naming rights deal from Farmers, because virtually not one penny of that will flow to the city either.

As for Long Beach: Nothing to do with your stadium boondoggle in Los Angeles, except for being another poster child for ruinous Redevelopment Agency policies.

Stick to pertinent stuff: NFL Stadium Poker, the game of "No-Limit Stadium Sold 'Em," in which NFL millionaires always win - and which citys always lose.

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-

You're absolutely correct! How dare I try to be optimistic about a project thats being proposed by a company, with a proven track record, that has been successful before with other projects in the region(Staples Center, L.A Live)... Shame on me, please forgive me?! I dont know what came over me?! Dont forget, the city would like to put a proposition on the ballot come election time whereby the taxpayers would have to pay a little more in taxes to upgrade/update our deteriorated schools, God forbid, we cant let that happen either! Let pessimism rule!

Excuse me, I meant the LAUSD(los angeles unified school district) was going to put a proposition on the ballot not the city.

You still have absolutely no justification for the squandering of hundreds of millions of dollars in public money for a stadium that won't make anybody rich except for an NFL team owner.

If you have a case to make based on money, real facts - and a real "bottom line" - let's hear it.

If you can't do that, then it sounds like your AEG stadium is simply another boondoggle pumped up with silly little fan emotionalism - but not much else, and certainly not rational thought processes.

As for the LAUSD: Boy, did you just step in the doo-doo. Your subsidized stadium in fact forces the Community Redevelopment Agency to further extend its debt - thereby postponing the year in which all of that lovely property tax money finally gets paid to the schools as it should have been to begin with.

Essentially, RDAs rob public entities of exactly those financial resources which really *could* make our schools better.

But unfortunately, folks such as yourself would rather blow those resources on overpriced entertainment like NFL football.

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-
For the truth about the AEG deal that stadium boosters like "Bottomline" simply can't handle:
Check out "Ron Kaye L.A.":
ronkayela.com/2011/03/it-must-be-hard-for.html

Ok, u got me, this is a horrible proposal by horrible people whose main objective is to rip us all off!! So, now what Mr Treasurer?? How do u propose we improve our area?! How do we go about updating/upgrading and expanding our convention center?! Who is going to pay for that?! What is your alternative??!!

bottomline: The short answer is that you probably don't want to bother. In most cases, convention center expansions are a sucker's game.

See: fieldofschemes.com/sanders.html

The alternative would be to wait for a project that gives you better bang for your buck in terms of job and revenue creation than an NFL stadium or a convention center. Or a price point on a stadium that requires little enough public money that taxpayers aren't taking on a big risk — I know AEG claims that's what they're doing, but given the recent string of "we don't know yet" responses from the city, I think it's fair to say that the jury is still out on who would end up on the hook for how much.

Bottomline: Your idea costs even MORE money. L.A. loses even MORE money by following the path you're advocating.

You still have no credible "solution" to what you think the "problem" is.

A subsidized NFL stadium in Los Angeles is another example of continuing to dig when you're already in a deep hole.

Let's stop digging. OK?

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-

This is where you're in do
Didn't anybody

Well, Mr Treasurer, u keep saying I have no credible solution but in all honesty, other than spewing your obstructionist views, what is your credible solution??

Well, Mr Treasurer, u keep saying I have no credible solution but in all honesty, other than spewing your obstructionist views, what is your credible solution??

My solution is to NOT build a stadium that blows even MORE of LA's money.

What's yours? Obviously, your solution is build a stadium that blows even MORE of LA's money.

That's why your stadium subsidy idea doesn't work - because you can't read that "bottom line."

And posting twice doesn't make you any more "credible."

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-

Okay, everybody, take a deep breath and go back to your corners. This is edging ever closer to personal attacks, and those are not allowed here.

Posting multiple times is a known bug in the comment system here. (Actually a problem with my web host running its scripts too slowly, but it amounts to the same thing.) I try to delete duplicates when I see them, but please be patient with people who've misposted. It's happened to all of us.

The problem with your solution Mr Treasurer is that its no solution at all! Its a negative, obstructionist rant that doesnt benefit anyone. If we would've listened to people like you(& joel wachs# back in the late 90's, Staples Center and L.A Live never would've been built#not to mention all the other development that has taken place in downtown L.A as well)!

It's not my responsibility to fix your defective idea. It's yours.

Until you have a fix: A subsidized NFL stadium is no answer to what you *think* is ailing Los Angeles.

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-

I wanted to throw in my two cents regarding AEG. They (with our tax dollars) opened Sprint Center in '07 and promised to get Kansas City a hockey or basketball team to help fill the dates.

We're still waiting....

That 2 cents is worth $13.8 million in my book.

See Neil deMause's coverage on Sprint Center here on this very site:

www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2011/05/4563_kc_star_writer.html

Sorry you're still waiting for a team. Unfortunately, taxpayer-subsidized arenas and taxpayer-subsidized NFL stadiums are both built on the sand of broken promises.

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-

Defective idea huh?! Yup, just as defective as both Staples Center & L.A Live... Keep up the great work!

You got pretty far afield, there, Bottomline. Like I showed above: Staples has nothing to do with a subsidized NFL stadium paid for with L.A.'s tax dollars. Let re-cap your so-called "solution":

1. Los Angeles sells $350M in bonds ONLY to tear down a Convention Center they're current using. (Flash: As of this afternoon, AEG just simply *swears* that they're only asking for "the high 200 millions" in bonds. Rigghhhht.)

2. Los Angeles services that debt over (at least) a ten-year period, paying back both interest and principal.

3. Los Angeles continues to make $48 million a year in payments on $445,000,000 they're already carrying for Convention Center upgrades done in 1985.

4. Los Angeles will probably make $29 million a year in payments on the "demolition bonds," which means that they'll be paying out $77,000,000 a year in interest payments alone - all so that some millionaire NFL owner can take virtually every penny in NFL revenue out of the stadium.

4. Los Angeles loses every penny in revenue associated with the Convention Center lying in rubble at its feet - and even when LA rebuilds that Convention Center wing, they'll find that they'll never be able to expand it. Not ever again.

5. AEG says, "Tough luck - we're not going to make a up a single penny in revenues that you Angelenos are going to lose in evaporated Convention Center business."

6. AEG *THEN* says, "Don't get any ideas about that $700M naming rights deal with Farmers Insurance - we're using most of that to pay off the NFL owner we finally persuade to move in."

7. Los Angeles sees a little sales tax and Cokes and silly little plastic helmets.

That's why your deal's no good, Bottomline.

Anytime you want to fix your losing deal - step right up.

Rgds,
Bill Bailey, Treasurer,
SantaClaraPlaysFair.org.

-=0=-