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April 26, 2010
Vikings subsidy demand totals $64 per ticket
With only three weeks left in the state legislative session, the Minnesota Vikings owners still haven't specified exactly how much their proposed new stadium would cost, or who would pay for it — team president Mark Wilf said on Friday that "this is something the Legislature will be talking to the public about in the very near future. The public has a right to know, and soon they will know."
State senator John Marty, meanwhile, has come up with a clever way to put the likely stadium costs in perspective:
In February the Vikings' head lobbyist, Lester Bagley, told Finance & Commerce newspaper that the cost to taxpayers to cover principal and interest on the bonds would be $42 million annually for 30 years.
Let's put this into terms to which we can relate. Do the math. Bagley wants taxpayers to subsidize each of the 65,000 seats at every Vikings home game to the tune of over $64 per ticket.
That is $64 of taxpayer money for each ticket, at every game -- including preseason. For 30 years!
As explaining big numbers goes, that certainly trumps the three pennies meme.
Hmmn. So I was off by $4.... kind of...
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2010/02/4017_pawlenty_unleas.html#comments
It's not that "clever" a way to put demands for public funds in perspective... but it might be the only way that actually works in that it lets the public see just how much they will be paying for the great privilege of having a pro sports team to call their 'own' (whether they can afford tickets or not, and given the subsidy involved it is more likely than ever that they can't)...
Okay, I just had to do this for the Santa Clara stadium. I'm adding up everything that we know about:
$114 million direct subsidy,
$35 million in RDA bond interest from the direct subsidy (can't add hotel loan and bond interest because we haven't been given any number for those-loans at 8.5% interest from the 49ers),
$67 million loss to our General Fund (as property taxes are diverted away from our GF towards stadium construction debt)
$330 million Stadium Authority construction bonds
$21 million in interest on short term bonds
$221 in interest on the long term bonds backed by naming rights and ticket taxes
This doesn't include the operating losses the 49ers deem 'unreasonable' or what will happen if the SA can't sell enough personal seat licenses or isn't able to pay the bond debt (Term Sheet excludes the 49ers from being responsible for our bond debt).
Total = $788 million
Divided by 25 years (Stadium Authority bond term)
divided by 10 games/year
divided by 68,500 seats in the stadium =
$46 of taxpayer money for each ticket, at every game - including preseason. For 25 years!
Got any suggestions on how I computed this? Let me know. The GF loss occurs over the first 16 years, so the per seat debt is higher for the first 16 years and less in later years. Then we don't know how much more will be added for operating losses.
Not too mention the other events that will happen at the stadium, the post season games, population increases, etc. Its so easy to sum up the whole deal into one number isn't it? As a person who uses numbers to make arguments for a living, I can tell you that it is really easy to make anything look good, AND look bad just using numbers. Over simplifying is just the easiest way skew numbers. Money per year divided by approximate CURRENT population divided by games = cost per taxpayer. Pretty simple. That must include every aspect! Does that include only people who pay taxes? Does that take into account the funding ideas that only tax the fans(licenses plates, Vikings lottery ticket, etc)? I expect better than lazy math to argue against this stadium, do better work next time.
Posted by Eric Peterson on April 26, 2010 11:59 PM
Eric;
Yes, the rough math probably does unsettle you, and I can understand that. But at least you have math here... the pro stadium boosters always change the subject when math comes up - and not by accident.
I'd love to see their math, and I promise to carefully go through it with an open mind. But the reality is, we'll never see anything beyond "Oh don't worry about details, it will be good for the city, good for the people, good for the state".
Well, perhaps. But absent math, that is very hard for anyone to positively determine, isn't it?
Hmmm...
42 Pacers game per year
@18,345 seats (assuming a sell-out, these are the Pacers after all),
$15 million in operating costs....
works out to about $19.50 per seat per game for operating costs per year
Each season ticket holder is subsided to the tune of about $820 per year.
... subsidy is much higher if fewer tickets are sold...
In addition to the city already paying for building Conseco Fieldhouse.
Posted by Rob in Indy on April 30, 2010 09:14 PM