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January 19, 2009
A's: Warm Springs, here we come, maybe
It's official, more or less: Now that their original proposed stadium site in Fremont has bit the dust, the Oakland A's owners are refocusing their efforts on a site next to the Warm Springs BART station that is set to open in Fremont in 2014 ("funding permitting," notes the BART website). A's co-owner Keith Wolff went so far as to say the Warm Springs site is "most likely" the preferred site for now, which in the stadium biz is practically like moving in with all your furniture.
Warm Springs would mean getting away from the traffic worries that have bedeviled the original site (the final straw for that plan, in fact, was when the developer of a neighboring plot complained about the likely traffic nightmare), but would present new problems. Reports the San Jose Mercury News:
But that location, just west of Interstate 680 near the intersection of Osgood Road and Grimmer Boulevard, presents its own hurdles. Many Warm Springs residents oppose the site, fearing the ballpark will cause gridlock and noise.
The team doesn't own any land near the BART site and would have to purchase several lots on which to build the stadium.
Not to mention the fact that the Wolffs would be back to the drawing board for financing, especially since the Warm Springs site apparently wouldn't be eligible for tax-increment financing (i.e., kicking back property taxes to pay for construction) as the old one would have. The Merc News speculates that Warm Springs may just be a stopgap while the A's owners work out a deal in San Jose, but that'd require not just paying for a stadium but also paying off the San Francisco Giants for their territorial rights, which is going to be tough to afford just by selling more Jack Cust t-shirts to Google employees.
For now, the A's will be submitting a revised development application to the city of Fremont, which means going back to the drawing board both with an environmental impact analysis and with public hearings. "By volume, it's a lot of people," Fremont Mayor Bob Wasserman told the Merc News of local opposition. I really hope he meant that they're loud, and not the alternative.
memo to a's ... nobody in the bay area gives a lick about you ... move to sac-town.
Posted by howard on January 20, 2009 11:58 AM
What isn't mentioned though is that Selig has now said that the Giants don't have to be paid off. MLB has the ability to re-grant the South Bay rights to the A's, not the Giants.
Posted by Dan on January 20, 2009 02:07 PM
Selig's letter just said the A's can "discuss a ballpark with other communities." That's a big leap to assuming that 1) "other communities" means San Jose and 2) the Giants wouldn't have to be compensated.
Given that Selig forced the Nationals to indemnify the Orioles, who didn't even have territorial rights to Washington, I don't see him yanking the Giants' territory with no compensation, even if legally he has a right to.
Posted by Neil on January 20, 2009 02:33 PM
Neil,
You're wrong on that count according to MLB.com on Jan 14th. The article stated, "Thus, if the A's want to move into Santa Clara County, it would be a decision made by the Commissioner and not by the Giants"
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090114&content_id=3744414&vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak
Posted by Dan on January 20, 2009 02:42 PM
Right, territorial rights are always bestowed by MLB - that's how the Giants got them in the first place. But Selig has not said he'd strip the Giants' rights without compensation, which has always been the issue.
Incidentally, that MLB.com article is getting a ton of attention for some reason, but the news of the Selig letter is a month old:
http://www.mercurynews.com/athletics/ci_11228501
Posted by Neil on January 20, 2009 03:05 PM
True it is, but the reason the MLB article is getting so much attention is that it's the first time it has been implied that MLB would force the Giants to give up their south bay rights, presumably even if they don't find the payoff terms by the A's to be to their liking.
Posted by Dan on January 20, 2009 03:15 PM
But it's just reporting on the same Selig "other communities" letter from last month. It seems like people are leaping on some sloppy writing by an MLB.com writer to assume that this means Selig has had a change of heart, and I don't see any evidence of that, at least not yet.
Posted by Neil on January 20, 2009 04:14 PM
Maybe, maybe not. Fact is though it makes sense. And if Wolff wants San Jose, there's not much standing in his way. He's an old buddy of Selig, so Selig will make the change for him. Particularly when San Jose is making it very clear that the A's are welcome and they'd be ready for the A's to hit the ground running when they give up the pipe dream that is Fremont.
http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2009/01/19/story3.html?b=1232341200^1762461
Posted by Dan on January 20, 2009 04:19 PM
Dan, need to stop being a dumb cheerleader and start accepting reality. Absolutely NO WAY Selig "forces" the Giants to give up territorial rights, especially without compensation. Just because you think it "makes sense" doesn't mean jack. The Giants constructed a privately finance ballpark with alot of support from south bay companies and individuals with the knowledge that no other team would move into that area. They continue to heavily draw from that area. So please consider some facts before simply claiming that it "makes sense" to you. We don't care about your "logic."
Posted by Hugh on January 20, 2009 04:42 PM
CalTrain is packed for Giants games. I wouldn't be surprised if they drew as much attendance from the South Bay as they do from the City itself. Add that to the healthy FSBA advertising from SJ businesses during Giants games and you've got yourself a bit of a problem if you're trying to move the A's into that backyard...
Posted by Thomas on January 20, 2009 05:10 PM
Thomas, you're dead right. I'm one of those south bay Giants fans that take caltrain to the game on a regular basis. I pick up the train in SJ and take it all the way up to the park and back and there are many, many, many folks just like me. The train is packed for every game I've been to. There is absolutely no way MLB takes this market away from the Giants.
Posted by Roger on January 20, 2009 05:37 PM
Hugh, sticks and stones...
But seriously look at the facts. 1, the A's want to move to San Jose. 2, San Jose wants the A's to move to San Jose. 3, Selig and Wolff want the A's to move from Oakland (Selig's wanted that for more than 40 years). 4, Fremont is dead, Sacramento has been ruled out, and no other municipality other than San Jose can accept a baseball team at this time. And lastly 5, multiple talking heads have indicated that San Jose was implied in Selig's letter in December including MLB.com.
Call me a cheerleader if you want, but the fact remains the best and most likely locale for the A's is the South Bay. Will the Giants bellyache, sure. Will they get compensation, almost certainly. But can they Giants block a South Bay move by the A's, the undeniable truth of the matter is, no they cannot. MLB giveth (the rights) and MLB can taketh away at their discretion. The only issue is how much compensation they'll require the A's to provide.
Posted by Dan on January 20, 2009 07:11 PM
"The only issue is how much compensation they'll require the A's to provide."
Well, yeah. But at a certain price point, San Jose no longer is an improvement over Oakland. Everyone acts as if "the A's need a new stadium" is a given, but I'm already dubious about Wolff's ability to make a stadium pay for itself without subsidies (note that he still hadn't revealed a financial plan for Fremont, three years in); add in tithing a chunk of their revenues to the Giants, and it gets even dicier.
Note that I'm not saying there's no way a San Jose move could happen. Just that it has easily as many financial obstacles as anyplace else you could mention. Which is, no doubt, why the Wolffs are still holding out hope for Warm Springs.
Posted by Neil on January 20, 2009 07:48 PM
Thomas,
"That backyard" includes Fremont as well. There's no difference if the A's move to Fremont or downtown San Jose (DSJ), NONE! South Bay fans and corporations could easly choose between south Fremont or DSJ, regardless of any T-Rights.
Roger,
What the hell does Giants fans taking Caltrain from SJ have to do with possibly moving the A's to DSJ? Having the A's in south Fremont or DSJ doesn't mean Giants fans HAVE TO give up there allegiance. And the "market" would be taken away, again, by the A's in south Fremont or DSJ. Besides, taking Caltrain from DSJ to AT&T Park takes far to long; over an hour (yes, trains are packed north of Millbrae).
Hugh,
You're the one who needs to accept reality!
Howard,
oh, never mind...
Dan,
YOU ARE RIGHT ON WITH YOUR POSTS!
speaketh of cheerleaders and look who shows up!
Posted by jasonb on January 21, 2009 11:29 AM
More than territorial rights and CalTrain riders, I think San Jose becomes a long shot for the most obvious of reasons:
SJ Mayor Chuck Reed: "Lew's got my phone number. But he'll have to bring his checkbook. We don't have any money."
This would seem to mean that Wolff would have to get a redevelopment zone and a Mega-TIF to build his palace. It's not my area of expertise, but even a layperson can see there just isn't enough land around the SJ Diridon location to build "Ballpark Village" as there is in Freemont. So San Jose would seem to be dead on arrival, but...
I've been reading Field of Schemes long enough to speculate that Wolff would pitch a land swap where he builds the stadium at Diridon yet somehow ends up with redevelopment rights for a more lucrative area of SJ along with a massive TIF break for both.
Posted by Thomas on January 21, 2009 01:32 PM
I think that BART stations will be delayed even further due to lower revenue and the death of a passenger, Bailey and he impending lawsuits.
Posted by D Abel on January 29, 2009 02:28 AM